My take for the gaming industry as a whole is make games that work as relliably as Farmville and others like it do, I am a gamer first and an mmo vet second so I hold reliability in a much higher place than most mmo players seem to and maybe the devs need to think about this as opposed to all this abstract drivel.

The bottom line is WOW outside of it's vast popularity worked as reliably as most console games did but the rest of the industry doesn't have this to fall back on I don't know if it's due to laziness or incompitence but either way this is the one factor I don't see these devs discuss, why is it that they constantly release games with advertised features that don't work at the time of release and more importantly why is it they think that an excuse like "well we ordered the box art before the game was finished" makes any kind of difference?  Gaming is business like music movies etc. and I don't see how so many devs expect us to believe when they have so many examples of how to address this part of there business that they can't get this part right, hell many of these same companies have been releasing offline/console games for years and aren't forced to lie to the player base.

Put it like this AOC,DF,WAR are all games that we are expected to PAY money for then pay a monthly fee on top of that and every one of those games arguably released missing features that some will say had no reason to not be included or should not have been talked about if they aren't in and Farmville, Mafia wars are free and guess what?  They may not do much but what they are supposed to do they actually do.

Farmville didn't kill gaming, the industries reaction to the success of WoW killed gaming in the MMO sense of the word. All of these damn wow clones which take no risks, and change nothing but skin colors are the problem. If you want to skip over the whole farmville era before it even starts ... INNOVATE.

For example, why hasn't a game been released with voice chat? Imagine a world where you could hear everything people say up to 5 feet from you. Sure .. there are times that would suck, and maybe that isn't the best idea overall, but something that truly innovates beyond having slightly different class names instead of priest and warrior, or slightly different combat mechanics are never going to change much and if things remain as stale as they have since wow .. something else is bound to come along and give people something more compelling to do.

We haven't even had a proper sandbox mmo since UO. Every time a new game pops up around here I go take a look at the classes, and generally I'm done reading after that because all of them are warrior, priest, mage, rogue. This genre above all others has the ability to really take the idea of sandbox style gaming to another level, but the closest we have come are hacked up multi class systems which basically just end up extending the total classes from 6 to 18 or something. I want to develop my character into a mage that also does awesome melee dps.

Anyway, the point is don't blame farmville. Blame Lucas/Bioware for only being able to come up with "full voice-over" as an innovation.

The simple reality is that almost my entire family plays FARMVILLE. This includes my mom and her senior citizen friends. Most of my Facebook friends play it. It's a simplified level and grind game. It's a market open to anybody. Games like WoW or WAR, etc etc only attract certain types. Farmville as lame as a game as it is attracts just about anybody. It's competitive. They have simple ongoing events all the time.. Best part is people play it for free. People actually socialize on FB in game and out. After all who would pay to play a Flash based laggy game.

I challenge game developers to give me an interesting gaming experience. Until then i'm mindlessly waste time on simplistic games like FV and others.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

My take for the gaming industry as a whole is make games that work as relliably as Farmville and others like it do, I am a gamer first and an mmo vet second so I hold reliability in a much higher place than most mmo players seem to and maybe the devs need to think about this as opposed to all this abstract drivel.

True enough, and yet the lesson hasn't been learned.  How many PS3/Xbox games are working out of the box?

Why did people avoid these consoles (ignoring that the PS3 was built mostly to win a format war- BluRay)?  Because you bought a box that contained a game you had to install, patch and deal with the same DRM as the PC world.  IIRC the average production costs have tripled since 2003 with no comparable increase in unit price or units sold.  (Abort rant about graphics)

Something has to give.  We're either going to have to pay more or expect less.  Developers will have to build or embrace technology/methodology to drive their costs down.  (Damn it I want to rant about graphics again) To me the focus has for too long been about pushing prettier pixels, to the point that they have far surpassed the point of diminishing returns on the current tools (ie it's why production costs skyrocket even as game shrink in playtime/content).  I look to the "gimmicks", new control/input types and at the old concepts used before the graphic capacity of the machines was virtually "unlimited".

Make no mistake, I don't like thinking about games as business models or in terms of economics.  But to understand where we are and to divine the future you have to. 

Originally posted by ghstwolf

Recently there was an article here about making MMOs more accessible.  My big question is: why can't a single virtual world cast it's net into the various markets?

Is it so hard to visualize a virtual world with more than a single entry point?  Why not offer a free browser based "factoryville", where those players produce consumables and some of the raw materials for an MMO?  This would be your free w/cash shop for various upgrades element.

OK, that covers the crappy "social" game part.  Now we can talk about the "real" MMO.  The only difference would be the economy would affect both the MMO and the "social" game.  The MMO player would gain access to the larger world along with the "factoryville" portion, a very large advantage.  The factory upgrades would be available in the world, along with markets not available to the "social" gamers.

This offers huge advantages to "traditional" models.  For "real" gamers, we could play with our non-gaming friends.  At the same time, our non-gaming friends would have a little taste of the MMO life.  It's similar to the Warcraft effect on WoW subs, but stronger since the 2 games would be tightly tied together.  The "social" game is both advertising and a pre-purchase time investment.  Think of the crappy communities we tolerate because we are so time invested into a game before we realize how bad they really are.

Koster was saying that social games will not become hardcore but a game with a combined offering would be interesting.  A P2P mmo where there would be a F2P interface for NPC activities.  When the farm/restrauntville players produce things they can sell at in an auction house to players in the P2P game interface.  All those gray items you find, instead of selling them to an NPC, you sell them to a player in the other interface who is playing recycleville or something.  

You could set it up to where either interface could function on its own but there would be bonus for players in each interface to interact.  The best weapons in the P2P interface could created by grandma playing factoryville in the F2P interface, and the ville player could receive auction prices for their stuff instead of a set amount.

Maybe the idea is overly complicated but you could even use the dual interfaces to create meaningful RvR in the P2P interface.  A faction controlling an area has access to F2P players producing different things needed in the P2P interface.    

A lot of players did not ever play any other game beside Farmville. ( Almost all of my friends that play Farmville are girls and do not like any other games)

As I write this post, I am a bit torn, but I have understanding as I speak. As someone who has played Zynga's Vampires and many mmos I can see what works and what doesn't work in both aspects. I thought I'd clarify the pros and cons of it, something like guild wars, and the new game I've been playing Mabinogi.

~Vampires~

Pros

• I can be lazy and click my way to fame and fortune.
• I can request help from friends, who do not have to be online to help.
• I can be lazy and click my way to having thumbs of steel.

Cons

• You thought Free to Play Item malls were bad? You are required to spend lots of money to succeed. No option.
• Energy/Time/Whatever, if my bar is empty, I have to wait 4 hours to do something significant.
• If you don't buy stuff, you're often going to be made fun of by people who do.

Sum Up - Vampires, Restaurant City, Farmville, and many others seem like they might be the next possible future. Honestly though they don't hold people's attention. It's fun to click when you're bored in the morning and before bed but it quickly loses it's appeal. Not only that, but given that people don't really 'play' it means succeeding is left to those with money to burn.

~Guild Wars~

Pros

• Persistent World that looks pretty and ofters traditional content most gamers expect.
• Lack of long (5+ hour) raid type events for 1 piece of loot.
• Skill based rather then profession based for interesting combinations.
• Wide varieties of items/mods to make unique weaponry.

Cons

• I hope you like grinding. Some items are so expensive, if you work for a year, you still won't be able to afford them.
• Lack of player interaction material/locations/fun.
• Lack of resources to fix/upgrade most game elements, even ones horribly bugged/broken.
• Loot system is an utter joke. You're either lucky or poor.
• Some professions and profession combinations are downright useless.
• Horrible horrible title grinding/Hall of monument grinding for zero impact on the world around you. (10,000 minutes drunk) yes that's minutes in game you must click an item to get 1 to 3 minutes.
• Lack of an epic feel/Armor modifications.

Sum Up - Guild Wars is your traditional MMO. They do some things right but honestly they're too pre-occupied  with Aion and GW2 to give it the attention in needs. That could be said for many MMO companies though. They really don't care about the players, just grinding to buy time till the next expansion. I don't blame the developers, but it's hard to play when things are bad and they'd rather work on something else. Especially if you're not lucky.

~Mabinogi~

Pros

• Many of the things traditional gamers expect and more (houses, mounts, customization, you pick what skills you're good at, and crafting).
• Cut scenes that set the mood.
• Music making ability to play songs for your friends, share food around a campfire, and make silly faces.
• Non-combat skills like throwing paper airplanes.
• HUGE world to explore. I couldn't believe I was still running and barely touched the surface.
• No running to retrieve your corpse, no major exp penalties, no paying for deeds on death. You drop items when you are knocked unconcious, but it's understandable.
• Wide variety of pets, clothing, magic, items, skills, food, and more to make you get lost in options.

Cons

• The camera takes some getting used to with click to move and interact with.
• Skills need to be trained rather hard to be effective in the world.
• Better utility of the game requires money.
• You can feel a bit like a bot, doing the same tasks/schedule for several days.

Sum Up: When I first started playing this I was overwhelmed. Not just from learning a new game, but because many of the things I've been asking for in MMOs were here. Granted they don't have dungeon creation, dancing, or lots of mini-games but the sheer amount of options in staggering.  I sat there and said to myself, that if half the features in Mabinogi were in any other MMO it'd be considered an ubergame.  World of Warcraft has many of them, but it's not user friendly in my opinion.

~Conclusion~

The difference between the games really? It all comes down to the care and attention, the number of options that developers give their players. I don't care if a game developer is the Pulitzer prize winner, I want to be able to create as much of the world that is important to me. This I believe is the future of gaming. Customization and options. Developers honestly though are lazy and don't care about players (well for the most part).

So game developers that came along and cared even less got lots of money and current game developers are calling Foul? Hmmm, I don't think it works that way. If the game developers were to start hiring, and actually doing real significant work for the products that they currently have rather then new projects, I believe it'd be the MMO glory days again. They aren't going to though, so yeah it's probably going to mostly die.

Originally posted by Kookas

Maybe the idea is overly complicated but you could even use the dual interfaces to create meaningful RvR in the P2P interface.  A faction controlling an area has access to F2P players producing different things needed in the P2P interface.    

I'm not sure that it would be too complicated, but I doubt it would work.

Part of the appeal in "social" games is knowing/associating with the people you know in real life.  An RvR system for "contact" control would be a massive detriment for the F2P players. Cool as it might be as a mechanic for P2P, it would IMO sabotage the F2P side considerably.  Really I'd rather the P2P game respect what works in F2P space, treating it more as viral marketing +potential revenue stream.

That is you'd have first pick of your F2P only friend's stuff.  Pretty much messaging them with buy orders, and sending them various equipment upgrades/supplies (either as gifts or as payment).  They would still have an NPC broker for stuff if you are dramatically undercutting the market (the broker would pay some % less so you would have some room for profit) or for stuff you aren't interested in.

In a way, I very much disagree with Mr Koster.  Not in a disrespectful way, but I do think he's a bit trapped into the "all or nothing" thinking that permeates the web.  I'd have to look back to see if he has addressed the two pronged approach I'm advocating, which is a very limited version of the crazy idea I have for a "grand unification" within a virtual world.  Instead of a single game, make many but connect them all to and within a single virtual world.  Imagine an MMOFPS played in Simcity with Factoryville.  3 different games working together, from 3 different clients creating a game world we've never seen. 

 All the sudden Richard Garriot's Portalarium thing that he is doing with some other ex-Origin people does not seem like a bad idea at all.  If he could make a social game with the accessibility of Farmville  but have the fantasy trappings plus some of the cool features of UO, he could have a huge hit.

Haha, thanks Scott for this writeup, before your own conclusion I started to believe that this time you'd heavily disappoint me by following this pithy  and shallow drama queen thing. (Sorry no I found Scheels talk to be just that and nothing else.)

Just as a side note: I'm playing farmville since a looong time, pretty much since it came out - and fishville, the aquarium style clone too. It did not draw me from EQ2, it did not make me pay money, I just play the free stuff every so often. And I realize how annoying (and clever) it is to offer a stables frame for free, the pieces to make it whole you can only get from friends as free gifts ... but one type at least is only showing up one day as one or you need to pay cash for it ...

Basically it is nothing else then a new spin to the old f2p games with item shop. You don't need it or it will take long time to get it (you recieve one farmville cash coin per level you make) - or you pay real world money. I like the creativity people develop when it comes to money revenue, would be nice to see that applied to game functions instead of screaming WAR! (pun intended)

Something else I missed in Scheels apocalypse talk: I know people who generate second facebook profiles with fake names to play the games with thousands of "friends" who are just players for the give-me-a-free-gift machinery they base on. And another "real" FB profile for real life friends, topics etc. Talk about truth of metrics ...

Edit: By the way a lot of FV player I know are a) not active but got dragged in by friends who play and need higher neighbour counts. My list of those is long too, they just create a farm, accept neighbourhood and never enter again. And quite some never play computer games ever except FV. 

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I have no problem with gaming like farmville. The people i want to play with in MMO's are not the farmville type. Therefore it wont affect my fun in the least. As a player who loves EVE i have not a single bit of desire to play anything even remotely like farmville. I would like to think that other players who love games like  EVE feel the same way. So what the hell do i care?

When game publishers decide that several cheap & short cycle social network games (that any 2 year old can master) are a better financial bet than the next up and comming sandbox MMO.....then you should care.

MMOs are expensive, HIGHLY competitive, VERY unpredictable, and have a long development cycle.  "Cheap"ville games are incredibly cheap to make, HIGHLY accessable via social networking sites,  and have very short development cycles.  So what if Farmville burns out in 6 months....they have the next one queued and ready to go.

I'm not suggesting that those games will take all the current MMO player base away.......I'm just suggesting that the pool of dollars thats available to fund new MMOs might get considerably smaller due to the success of these new HYPER casual games that reach out to non traditional gamers.

There are a lot of parallels you can draw from what WOW did to the MMO industry to what these social games are doing to the gaming industry.

I think this divide in gamers is artificial.  It's a continuum.  You may be a "core" gamer, who would never touch Farmville, but I know core gamers who play core games and also play Facebook games.  I also know people who only play Facebook games, and people who don't generally play any games.  I know a few people who work for game companies (the big ones), and some independent game developers.  Some of the people I knwo also play social games through facebook.  I know someone who worked for several "traditional" game publishers, and now they are working for a social game publisher.  And, as I said before, a cousin of mine, after having played facebook games, is now playing a RTS.  It's a continuum.  

This reminds me of the old debate about The Sims.  For years, there were people who said that The Sims wasn't a real game -- no combat, I guess.   Thankfully, that's over.  I figure this "tempest in a teapot" will be next.   More people will end up playing all kinds of games.  I think it's great for the industry, and for personal choice.  I'm not worried about MMORPGs going away -- looking at the numbers (however imperfect) of people playing -- doesn't seem likely. 

On a different topic, I think it's funny people will try to "cheat" Farmville -- have a fake account. I find farmville  to be relaxing -- meditative even -- I can't imaging trying to rush it along, it's not that kind of game.   I also think it's weird if people try to bug their friends to play it.  On my facebook friends, most don't play, some do.   Just like in any social situation,  it's not good to bug your friends. 

I'm still hoping this initiates more crossover games, Ralph Koster not withstanding.  I think all the different game genres can learn from each other.

-----

The WoW thing is interesting.  I read that all the time, in game forums, that after WoW, MMORPGs aren't as interesting.  I always wonder -- to who?  I'd think the people who play WoW enjoy it, and the people who play other MMORPGs -- I'm assuming they  enjoy they too, or they wouldn't play.   Are there not MMOs out there with your preferred playing style, even it if it's not the most popular?    

Originally posted by mszv

I think this divide in gamers is artificial.  It's a continuum.  You may be a "core" gamer, who would never touch Farmville, but I know core gamers who play core games and also play Facebook games.  I also know people who only play Facebook games, and people who don't generally play any games.  I know a few people who work for game companies (the big ones), and some independent game developers.  Some of the people I knwo also play social games through facebook.  I know someone who worked for several "traditional" game publishers, and now they are working for a social game publisher.  And, as I said before, a cousin of mine, after having played facebook games, is now playing a RTS.  It's a continuum.  

This reminds me of the old debate about The Sims.  For years, there were people who said that The Sims wasn't a real game -- no combat, I guess.   Thankfully, that's over.  I figure this "tempest in a teapot" will be next.   More people will end up playing all kinds of games.  I think it's great for the industry, and for personal choice.  I'm not worried about MMORPGs going away -- looking at the numbers (however imperfect) of people playing -- doesn't seem likely. 

On a different topic, I think it's funny people will try to "cheat" Farmville -- have a fake account. I find farmville  to be relaxing -- meditative even -- I can't imaging trying to rush it along, it's not that kind of game.   I also think it's weird if people try to bug their friends to play it.  On my facebook friends, most don't play, some do.   Just like in any social situation,  it's not good to bug your friends. 

I'm still hoping this initiates more crossover games, Ralph Koster not withstanding.  I think all the different game genres can learn from each other.

-----

The WoW thing is interesting.  I read that all the time, in game forums, that after WoW, MMORPGs aren't as interesting.  I always wonder -- to who?  I'd think the people who play WoW enjoy it, and the people who play other MMORPGs -- I'm assuming they  enjoy they too, or they wouldn't play.   Are there not MMOs out there with your preferred playing style, even it if it's not the most popular?    

 

 

 

 

 

Couple of things....

One of the key characteristics of MMORPGs that seperates itself apart from other game types is that it requires much more time and investment to actualize "fun" and experience the content on a pace that the developers deem reasonable. 

Time is the nature of the beast when offering very deep and meaningful content. (One of the primary reasons I jumped from console gaming to MMORPGs back in 2000)  Prior to WOW, the equation for customer retention was to create content that gave benefit from spending more time in game.  The more time and effort you have invested in the game, presumably, the harder it will be to abandon it.  You become "pot commited" so to speak.

If the current expectation is that people will be giving up MORE of their MMO time to sample the many social networking gaming alternatives hitting the scene.......wont game developers have to start designing experiences within MMORPGs based on a much shorter time scale?

Instead of it requiring the typical gamer 4-5 months to reach level cap, it will now only have to take 2-3 months to retain the customers attention?

Instead of it requiring the typical dungeon run 40 minutes, will it now be shortened to 10-20?

I think thats what some of the industry guys are concerned about.  If the intention of the publishers is to start marketing games to audiences that previously had little interest in video games, how many consessions will the "core" games have to make to compete in this new expanded market?

Where are the core gamers left to go?

Ask Darkfall how hard it is to get funding for a niche game.  What will happen when MMOs (even a casual WOW type) become a niche market among the huge groups of non-traditional gamers that the industry now considers part of the "gameing market".

--------------------------------------

Edit:  It wasn't that long ago when the MMO market was only 500,000 - 1,000,000 (Ultima Online, EverQuest). 

Blizzard had WOW in mind to market to gamers outside of the traditional MMO market and made concessions to the MMO experience to cater to casual gamers (FPSers, Console gamers)......which Blizzard now claims to have 8,000,000 - 11,000,000 subscribers. 

Anything resembling Ultima or EQ is now considered "niche" and is near impossible to get funding for (ask Darkfall).

If the developers are now aiming at an even MORE casual market (people who aren't gamers at all), will the casual WOW standard then become a niche market among the 100s of millions playing all types of games?  Will WOW standard MMOs have a hard time getting funding the, considering the HUGE costs and maintenance associated with MMORPGs?

Maybe all this will cause MMO developers to just wake the hell up! I don't mean find ways to copy elements of these Facebook games into their designs, either. I mean, get out of the frakin rut they all seem to be in and make fun games people want to play!

It's funny that from the article you can take away that the thing that the MMO developers despise the most about this new breed of games is that they are "metric driven". IMO, the almost universal arrogance of MMO developers, in which they want you to "play their game, their way", even if the design shows all the signs of going right down the tubes, is the biggest problem in the genre.

I don't want my MMOs morphing in form and function from day to day, but it wouldn't hurt if they were designed in ways that made some responsiveness to the wants/needs of the player base quick, cheap and easy to address.

Too many MMO developers have this God Complex that prevents them from ever acknowledging that their design could have flaws, or that their view of what makes a great MMORPG isn't something that can universally be applied to the tastes of the player base. Once an MMORPG is "out in the wild", it's a given that all the flaws, big and small, will quickly be uncovered as the players play. The need to make adjustments efficiently and effectively should be addressed as part of the design of the project.

(Don't even get me started on Raph Koster, that guy can turn MMO Gold into bricks of dried cow manure just by looking at it)!

Originally posted by fiontar

Maybe all this will cause MMO developers to just wake the hell up! I don't mean find ways to copy elements of these Facebook games into their designs, either. I mean, get out of the frakin rut they all seem to be in and make fun games people want to play!

 

It's funny that from the article you can take away that the thing that the MMO developers despise the most about this new breed of games is that they are "metric driven". IMO, the almost universal arrogance of MMO developers, in which they want you to "play their game, their way", even if the design shows all the signs of going right down the tubes, is the biggest problem in the genre.

I don't want my MMOs morphing in form and function from day to day, but it wouldn't hurt if they were designed in ways that made some responsiveness to the wants/needs of the player base quick, cheap and easy to address.

Too many MMO developers have this God Complex that prevents them from ever acknowledging that their design could have flaws, or that their view of what makes a great MMORPG isn't something that can universally be applied to the tastes of the player base. Once an MMORPG is "out in the wild", it's a given that all the flaws, big and small, will quickly be uncovered as the players play. The need to make adjustments efficiently and effectively should be addressed as part of the design of the project.

(Don't even get me started on Raph Koster, that guy can turn MMO Gold into bricks of dried cow manure just by looking at it)!

Good post....

To add to the "metric driven" topic.......I think the developers are worried about the publishers using metrics to kill what creative liberties the developers still have.

Metrics are just statistics.....which many of us know can either be a good or bad thing (depending on the interpreter) 

The MMO community is purely a different breed of gamer, and an entirely separate market. 

I was getting 20 gift requests a day from friends on Facebook, and I hadn't even touched the game.  One day my mother called and asked me to join and accept her neighbor request so she could expand her farm.  Soon I find out that a lot of people who gave me crap for my past gaming indulgence were now actively playing Farmville.  

I played around with it for a while; planting 2 day crops, spending 20 minutes every other day, and then I needed more neighbors to expand my farm.  I head to the Zynga forums per advice from a friend and recruited 10 people.  Wow what an eye opener.  Some of these people are just as addicted to Farmville as you'd find a person being addicted to any MMO.  They spend 12 hours or more a day spamming collections, and commenting about "stalking the feed"; ie. refreshing the Facebook feed over and over for hours to get clickie rewards from their 300+ random person neighbors they are constantly adding.

My theory..  when people disconnected from Myspace in favor of Facebook, they lost a lot of self expression.  Farmville is all about vanity, and is one of the rare places on Facebook where you can have a visual identity.  Go read the Zynga forums for a while and you'll find people claiming to spend $100 a week on junk that they delete two weeks later.  Others 'play to win', and be better than their friends.  The whole thing fascinated me from a gaming standpoint .

Truth.. these social gamers are not constantly searching for a better gaming experience outside of social networks.  I once thought that Farmville was a gateway MMO, but I retract that idea.  These are real people, and they want to remain real people.  Their motives for gaming are completely different than the standard MMO gamer, but Farmville found the right combination of loot and rewards.. much the same, huh?  

The article was a fine read. Maybe not the best piece ever, but exceptional by mmo journalism standards. So Zynga gets to kick the indie slackers around in the ratings? Good for them and good for us. I consider more competition a very good thing.

And it's true, Farmville is different from you run of the mill mmo. For one thing, in Farmville you get showered with gifts from your fellow players, as opposed being showered with gank squads and insults, which is the norm in all too many contemporary mmos. There are no 6+ hour raids with 20+ mouth breathing troglodytes on Teamspeak. No competition worth mentioning. You're in that game for the fun of it.

The fact that something as rudimentary gameplay wise as Farmville attracts numbers that easily beat most mmos by two magnitudes on the decimal scale just goes to prove that either a) mmos are a niche market or b) mmo developers are doing a bloody rotten job. Take your pick.

Life isn't static.  Sorry you feel like it should be but the facts are things can and do change.  I have been a gamer since the early 70's and believe me many changes have come about in gaming.   Learn to adapt.

I've been against F2P games since they first showed their ugly faces and this only hardens my heart towards them. I love P2P games becuase you get a solid game. Sure I pay more but I have a WAY better time.

In my opinion what we're seeing isn't the death of P2P games but rather a mainstream switch. F2P is pulling in numbers because it attracts cheapminded people. However there will always be those people who will want to spend more for a better game. F2P is becoming your average Honda/Ford of gaming, P2P will become your Lexus/Jaguar of gaming. In the end those that want to pay for Luxury will and those that don't wont.

To be honest..

If there was a new good finished game that has been released in the past 4 years right now that I am not burnt out on (EQ2, WoW, EvE)  I might pay a script.

As it stands, Free games like the brower based ones are the way to go.

I have been burnt by the last few years of releases and will not sub anymore,

Hrica (aka, Tessie, aka Vlatava, aka Voila) has retired from pay to play MMOs for lack of .....well a decent, finsihed product.

Suprize me EA, Square Soft, bring this old man out of retirment.

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by Raph

I haven't seen any numbers for Aion subscribers broken out by territory. Does it have millions in NA/Europe?

LOTRO's what, a million or so?

That really is not "rising tide for everyone" sorts of results. Better, but 2-3x improvement in 7-8 years?

More telling, only two examples?

The marketshare has been increasing every year. What's that saying?

Despite the publishers best attempt to bore us to death with WoW clones, the market is still increasing.

DDO just announced a 500% revenue increase. The money is there. You just have to know how to get it. Creating WoW clones won't do it. You think creating Farmville clones will?

Hey, at least when this doesn't pan out the company won't be out millions of dollars. I'm kinda glad to see the WoW clone publishers moving on to the "next big thing".

Oh yes, getting rid of the clonemakers and every other bad MMO company would be an extremely positive thing for the industry. Maybe SOE will go make Starville where you can space farm mynocks for milk or something.

Then in my dream they sell off all of their MMO properties to smaller developers that bring real care and concern for the playerbase to the properties, starting with the removal of the RMTs, then rolling back SWG and Planetside to their heyday versions.

Wow, just wow, and I don't mean world of warcraft!  Those people with the fear of facebook games make me laugh so hard I almost had another heart attack, and I've had a lot!  I just recently got into the facebook games, like 2 weeks ago, and you can literally spend about 1 minute on each game, sometimes less sometimes more.  What got me into them is the fact that many of them are nothing more than the old MUD's we used to play with graphics, thats it!  Nothing new or original, its been around since before anyone knew what a MMO was.  And the majority of people playing these games are not shelling out their money, they are playing them cause 1. It's free, 2. it's quick and can do multiple ones and not get bored with just the same ole thing of one game, 3. it's social where the likes of old MMO's forced you to be social as well unlike the solitary lifestyle games now a days are shoving down our throats, 4. it also shows that the majority doesn't give a damn about the best super graphics eva crap.  Seriously when the hell are these developers going to wake up, the people that scream on the forums about better graphics this, better engine that do not make up but the smallest percentage of the millions out there that would gladly pay a monthly subscription if they just concentrated on a game that would draw you in, and make you keep playing over and over and over...etc

When developers get a clue, that is when I will stand up and notice, not when they panic because everything they thought about gaming is WRONG!

MMO: " Browser based social games took our jobs!!!...THEYTOOKAAARJAAABBBS!!"

Originally posted by BarCrow

MMO: " Browser based social games took our jobs!!!...THEYTOOKAAARJAAABBBS!!"

That was funny, and so true!

Good article Mr. Jennings.

Many of the points of your article I have been thinking about myself for the past year or so.

As pessimistic as it sounds, I forsee no new "great" MMOs being released ever again. I believe this because great MMOs were created when Developers, Artists, and Players controlled MMO Gaming. These people no longer do.

Investors, Accountants, and marketing Suits control MMOs now, and they wouldn't know a MMO if it hit them broadside, nor would they care what it was if it didn't make them a tremedous profit. MMOs are an Art form, not a get rich quick scheme.... and the MMO Industry is now run by and paid for by the Suits that only care about short term profit.

MMOs are all about long term. Until the suits figure this out MMO gaming will NOT be MMO gaming, even if they call it that. The problem is this... once the love of money infects an Art form, that Art form dies, or is critically wounded. Only after decades, sometimes centuries does that Art form once again gain the respect and attention it deserves. This pattern in human behavior has been repeated countless times in history. I seriously doubt the human race is going to finally get past this shortcoming now at this precise moment.

Thank you for your article, at least you Sir have attempted to inform the Players about the changes to MMO Gaming. I have known this is the case for months now, at least someone that can publish articles is now admitting it as well.

Thank you to those Developers, Artists, and Players that are fighting this trend in the MMO Industry world itself, at the Conventions, and on the internet. I hope you win the fight.