"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

Translation: "The writing is already on the wall and it's going to come to light eventually that TESO is yet another derivative, contrived, "me-too" copy-cat of what people have already played, and that this whole project was simply a way to cash in on the good name Bethesda has spent years working to build.

I'm just gonna start getting the spin out there ahead of time, to be more proactive in my damage control by setting expectations, rather than merely reactive by making excuses".

 It's too early yet to pull the "people just don't understand our game" card.. So I guess this was the next best thing.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Translation: "The writing is already on the wall and it's going to come to light eventually that TESO is yet another derivative, contrived, "me-too" copy-cat of what people have already played, and that this whole project was simply a way to cash in on the good name Bethesda has spent years working to build.

I'm just gonna start getting the excuses out there ahead of time, to be more proactive in my damage control, rather than merely reactive".

Pretty much sums it all.

Matt Firor doesn't sound like a game creative, it sounds more like an accountant.

There is a truly innovative feature actually.............make a TES MMO which plays EXACTLY like Skyrim or Morrowind.

Nobody has done that yet.

How about that as an original feature Matt?

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by TangentPoint

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Translation: "The writing is already on the wall and it's going to come to light eventually that TESO is yet another derivative, contrived, "me-too" copy-cat of what people have already played, and that this whole project was simply a way to cash in on the good name Bethesda has spent years working to build.

I'm just gonna start getting the excuses out there ahead of time, to be more proactive in my damage control, rather than merely reactive".

Pretty much sums it all.

Matt Firor doesn't sound like a game creative, it sounds more like an accountant.

There is a truly innovative feature actually.............make a TES MMO which plays EXACTLY like Skyrim or Morrowind.

Nobody has done that yet.

How about that as an original feature Matt?

Yet doesn't everyone praise what is it? Darkfall and some other game for having that exact combat?

I don't like that combat system, a good amount of people don't. A good amount of people do. But I personally would say, "Nah, i think i'll pass on this one" if the combat were JUST like Skyrim. 

I played it on Console, and the thought of the right trigger scroll wheel, euip my heals, then release and get back into the fight to heal, then the right trigger to the same scroll wheel, to re-equip my weapons or spells....

Horrible idea.

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by TangentPoint

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Translation: "The writing is already on the wall and it's going to come to light eventually that TESO is yet another derivative, contrived, "me-too" copy-cat of what people have already played, and that this whole project was simply a way to cash in on the good name Bethesda has spent years working to build.

I'm just gonna start getting the excuses out there ahead of time, to be more proactive in my damage control, rather than merely reactive".

Pretty much sums it all.

Matt Firor doesn't sound like a game creative, it sounds more like an accountant.

There is a truly innovative feature actually.............make a TES MMO which plays EXACTLY like Skyrim or Morrowind.

Nobody has done that yet.

How about that as an original feature Matt?

Yet doesn't everyone praise what is it? Darkfall and some other game for having that exact combat?

I don't like that combat system, a good amount of people don't. A good amount of people do. But I personally would say, "Nah, i think i'll pass on this one" if the combat were JUST like Skyrim. 

I played it on Console, and the thought of the right trigger scroll wheel, euip my heals, then release and get back into the fight to heal, then the right trigger to the same scroll wheel, to re-equip my weapons or spells....

Horrible idea.

The Combat Mechanic of DFO and MO isnt what players dislike about those games.

Originally posted by Vhaln

From an interview with PC Gamer..

 

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

 

Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

How about giving us three original ideas for a game.

Originally posted by Wolvards

"There's so many mmo's around now, that it's you don't really look to them for inspiration when you're doing things, but, at this point in the evolution of MMO's Every MMO has tried something new at one point or another, that you're going to do in your game. So many that there aren't any more true innovative features that no one else has even thought of, because there is a whole padre of MMO's. There is Korea that lots of people that even ZeniMax online plays so, there is lots of different idea's floating out there, and the one we want to do is just concentrate on making a good game for us, don't look at the gimmicks, don't look at what other games do. For a defining experience for a player to have, you want to make sure that it fits with The Elder Scrolls IP, and just make a great role playing game, make it social make, it a massive multiplayer game."

-Matt Firor, Interview with PC Gamer

Sorry, but it looks like someone took a weetle chunk out of something someone said trying to twist some words....

Seriously I know it wasn't the smartest thing to say, but holy crud guys, this site flames and mixes words so freaking much it's ridiculous. 

Even if you ONLY read what I wrote  down, it doesn't READ good, but if you WATCH WITH YOUR OWN EYES (OMG thats blasphemy, i want to take some random forum posters quote as fact!) you might actualy understand what he is trying to say. 

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/05/31/the-elder-scrolls-online-video-interview-game-director-matt-firor-on-evolving-tes-into-an-mmo/

Here is the link for you guys.

Here is how i took it...

There are SO many games on the market now, everyone will compare your game to anything under the sun, so instead of trying to make the game this way or that way or advertise the crap out of "True. Action. Combat.", let's just do our best at making a solid The Elder Scrolls that can translate over to the MMO world, and to do that some things will be left out.

That's how I took it as, a real understanding statement of a developer being blunt about the work. Rather, i see people just READ the first half of a statement he was making, not even WATCH it, but read it, and go troll heavy on it.

I mean holy poop guys, it is a game, if your panties are this wound up, go change your undies. Bunch of gripey look at me entitled gamers. 

If you want your special MMO, that's Skyrim online and everything under the sun, guess what? you are in the wrong buisness and you should be making it yourself. 

I don't want the game you fellas want. I dont want FFA PvP or even open world PvP. Yes i wish TES would implement some other things, but at this point we don't even know what is or isn't in game with the exception of a minimal hotbar and no player housing. 

DID ANYONE here even watch it and hear about the UI system? they are going as minimal with it as possible, make it more like a console game in the sense of a UI, which i think is great. But no, i'm sure you guys have something negative to say about it...

What about the PvP zone? it's based off Oblivion, so expect to see that as your PvP map, but again, i'm sure you guys would've done it differently right?

Vote with your wallets. Nuff said.

/endrant.

This needs to be quoted on every page.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Wolvards

Yet doesn't everyone praise what is it? Darkfall and some other game for having that exact combat?

I don't like that combat system, a good amount of people don't. A good amount of people do. But I personally would say, "Nah, i think i'll pass on this one" if the combat were JUST like Skyrim. 

I played it on Console, and the thought of the right trigger scroll wheel, euip my heals, then release and get back into the fight to heal, then the right trigger to the same scroll wheel, to re-equip my weapons or spells....

Horrible idea.

The Combat Mechanic of DFO and MO isnt what players dislike about those games.

Exactly

It is not the combat which is the problem with Darkfall................is everything else.

Plus the combat doesn't have to be exactly like Skyrim, I can compromise a bit.

I can live with hotbars and hotbuttons and make the UI more MMO friendly, but aiming should be definetly part of the system.

Originally posted by Wolvards
/sniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip

I understand your point of view completely, but I don't think you understand ours (well, mine, I don't presume to speak for everyone here, although I seem to share common sentiment with a great many other people here).

I personally have read and watched every piece of coverage for this game.

Why?  Why would I do that if I was so dead-set on hating it?  Am I a troll?  Do I just enjoy spreading negativity throughout the internet?  Had I made up my mind before hearing one iota of detail on the game?

Hell no.

It is because I love TES.  I am the proverbial TES "fanboi."  I fully admit that and am unashamed to say so.

I have never actually been a "fanboi" like this of anything else.  Not Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, etc. I started playing TES when I was very young.  Arena was my first game and I was 12.  It blew my mind how big the game was.  Ever since I have been hooked on the game.  Not for one aspect or another, but for the experience as a whole.

I have constantly played other games in the RPG genre and thought "this is cool and all, but it's not TES" and they have left me with a hollow feeling.  Even a game with such compelling narrative and characters like Dragon Age had me thinking that all the way through.  If only this was TES, I'd be having so much more fun.

I got into MMORPGs because of TES.  Meridian 59 was my first.  Why?  Because it was basically an online version of Daggerfall.  That amazed me and made me very happy.  Both Darkfall and Mortal Online grabbed my interest solely because they shared so many elements with my beloved TES.  I have played other MMORPGs of course, AC, DAOC, SWG, EQ, WoW, LOTRO, AoC, the list goes on and on.  Very few held my interest simply because they weren't like Meridian or Darkfall or Mortal, and by proxy they were unlike TES.

So you can imagine that an actual Elder Scrolls MMORPG has been on the tip of my brain for some time.  With each new iteration of the franchise I saw more and more potential for it being brought to the MMO format.

Yes we are bitching and whining, complaining and crying.  I grant you that.  We are voicing our concern, crying foul, all of that too.

Maybe we're not entitled to do so.  Maybe the throngs of fans who have helped put TES into a place as the number one RPG franchise in the world (sales and awards wise, beating out even the likes of Final Fantasy game-to-game) should just blindly trust ZOS and thrust their cash toward them without a second thought.

I also grant you that Matt Firor's words may be interpretted several ways, but knowing his history, I think the OP hit the nail on the head, even when putting it in context.

They are making a good game, so they believe, NOT a good Elder Scrolls game.

Not an Elder Scrolls MMORPG, just a standard MMORPG with TES lore.

TES lore is not and has never been enough for TES fans.  Battlespire and Redguard are both testaments to that.

It must play like TES and feel like TES in order to be TES.  Bethesda learned that lesson the hard way early on, and for one reason or another, failed to pass it on to ZOS, or perhaps they did and were simply ignored.

I'm sure many of us will vote with our wallets, but as people who genuinely care about this franchise, both the success AND failure of this MMO in its current state could have negative repurcussions on the way the single-player game is handled by the publisher.  It is important that we voice our concerns as early and often as possible.

Failure might lead them to redirect funds toward the Fallout franchise and put TES VI on the backburner.

Success might see them incorporating some of the features of the MMO into TES VI.

Worst-case scenario, that I agree with, but still plausible.

If your reaction is "they'd never be that stupid" remember that's what a lot of us were saying when they first announced the details of TESO...

I apologize for being passionate and dissenting about this game, but I'm not about to stop.  It gives me perspective on what many must have felt regarding the ME3 ending (although I wasn't in agreement with them, I could understand their feelings).

/endrantrebuttal ;)

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

At this point we should realize that the lunatics are running the asylum. Its guys like this that have turned MMOs (and other games) into somethig akin to a rambling, bumbling, noodling, mind numbing, Jerry Garica guitar solo.

Same to you mine Firor

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

This is a scary but not surprising statement given the current health of the genre. This is the type of individual who walks through life spouting off overused cliches such as "it's all been done before". While our society may seem this way at times, there simply is not a finite amount of ideas. We are only limited by our own imaginations.

I really appreciated CCP's Kristopher Touborg's response; white flag indeed. Also, I love the fact he acknowledges the industry's huge issue with big upfront box sales followed by quick and significant subscription losses.

Uninspired, unimaginative, walking cliches have no place in being a part of such a creative process as making an mmorpg.

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by Vhaln

From an interview with PC Gamer..

 

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

 

Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

How about giving us three original ideas for a game.

Do you really think I couldn't come up with any?  I think there are a lot of us here who could.  Who probably do, on a regular basis, as we fantasize about being able to actually make a game out of it.  Hell, I bet there are even devs who wish they were able to bring their ideas into games they're working on, but they can't, when most of them are just cogs in a game making machine.

I don't see much point in throwing ideas out here, though.  It'd be a lot of typing, just so that a few people can nitpick whether or not they're truly 100% original ideas.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by Vhaln

From an interview with PC Gamer..

 

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

 

Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

How about giving us three original ideas for a game.

 

Do you really think I couldn't come up with any?  I think there are a lot of us here who could.  Who probably do, on a regular basis, as we fantasize about being able to actually make a game out of it.  Hell, I bet there are even devs who wish they were able to bring their ideas into games they're working on, but they can't, when most of them are just cogs in a game making machine.

 

I don't see much point in throwing ideas out here, though.  It'd be a lot of typing, just so that a few people can nitpick whether or not they're truly 100% original ideas.

Why do you have to go right to completly original when you can just stop at never been done as an MMORPG. When was the last good Ninja MMORPG? Vampire? Steampunk?

How about a space game that does seamless transistions from any planet surface to space using procedural content generation to create thousands of planets? A game focused on being merfolk living under the ocean. How about a MMORPG where the players can time travel.

I mean seriously if your given an IP that would be just awesome as an MMORPG like say Narnia and the first thing that is annouced is raiding for epic purples a LFD tool, personal story with lots of cutscenes... and some 3 faction pvp!

OR...

Make a character that could be a citizen of Narnia with the character customization letting you choose from hundreds of animals and mythical creatures. Choose any profession, be a mouse master fencer, a beaver carpenter, and above all protect Narnia from evil.

We are at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what can be done with MMORPG's.

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by Vhaln

From an interview with PC Gamer..

 

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

 

Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

How about giving us three original ideas for a game.

 

Do you really think I couldn't come up with any?  I think there are a lot of us here who could.  Who probably do, on a regular basis, as we fantasize about being able to actually make a game out of it.  Hell, I bet there are even devs who wish they were able to bring their ideas into games they're working on, but they can't, when most of them are just cogs in a game making machine.

 

I don't see much point in throwing ideas out here, though.  It'd be a lot of typing, just so that a few people can nitpick whether or not they're truly 100% original ideas.

Why do you have to go right to completly original when you can just stop at never been done as an MMORPG. When was the last good Ninja MMORPG? Vampire? Steampunk?

How about a space game that does seamless transistions from any planet surface to space using procedural content generation to create thousands of planets? A game focused on being merfolk living under the ocean. How about a MMORPG where the players can time travel.

I mean seriously if your given an IP that would be just awesome as an MMORPG like say Narnia and the first thing that is annouced is raiding for epic purples a LFD tool, personal story with lots of cutscenes... and some 3 faction pvp!

OR...

Make a character that could be a citizen of Narnia with the character customization letting you choose from hundreds of animals and mythical creatures. Choose any profession, be a mouse master fencer, a beaver carpenter, and above all protect Narnia from evil.

We are at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what can be done with MMORPG's.

join others to gather the materials to craft a gaint catapult that has to be manned by 4 people with specific talents and using the capapult will be used against another clan to take over one of their holdings.

gaming industry has just barely begun to scratch the surface of creativity.

I refuse to believe that the idea above in my reply here which is one I had before I knew of Darkfall while I was playing EQ2 barely awake and not really thinking of ideas is some stroke of amazing intelligence on my part. I like to think I am smart when I am concentrating but I am not a brilliant person when I am not even trying.

At this point an innovation would be a new MMO incorporating MMO (community) aspects successfully.

Suits should never be heading the development of games.

Originally posted by Vhaln

From an interview with PC Gamer..

 

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

 

Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

What a joke, nothing can be innovative now? Please leave the game dev job you are making it worse.

Everytime the dev team for this game says something about it it makes the game sound so disappointing!  It's like they're purposely trying to soften the blow for us.

Oh well, I'll stay cynical on this title.

The hype for this game should be off the chart, this shows how inept these devs are. they are even short selling their own game.

I feel like I could get on board with some of the Elder Scrolls Online features... you know if I had not played Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim.

Originally posted by mklinic

While it's a different type of game, some of CCP's people were asked about this quote in an interview and I thought their responses were a bit more in line with what I would hope to hear a developer reply: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/25/eve-online-devs-on-dayz-elder-scrolls-online-and-whatd-make-them-quit-the-games-industry/

*Disclaimers: This isn't intended to compare EvE and ESO so much as display different mindsets about innovation. Also, i'm certainly a fan of EvE and, thus far, unimpressed with ESO (but hopeful...for some reason...).

 This is a very good article.

I actually got the impression that maybe someone at PC gamer wasn't real pleased with Firor's comment. 

@at the guy who tried to imply that the quote was taken out of context.  Nice try, you failed though.  The quote, even the little snippet is well within it's context.  I read the entire article, he said EXACTLY what the quote said, and it implied EXACTLY what he quote was trying to imply.

Firor believes it's all been done before, and therefore there isn't much room to do any kind of innovation, so you're just going to get more of the same. 

He's wrong, and it's exactly why ESO is shaping up the way it is.  He's only do what he knows, and what he liked in other games, and not trying to do anything different.  It's called justification.  He's been doing this in every article and interview for the past few weeks.  He's resorting to attempts to justify the way they're developing ESO into another "typical" MMO experience. 

If you're being truelly creative, if you're really putting your heart behind something, if you truelly believe in what it is you're creating, you NEVER, EVER, EVER, need to justify it; because it's blatantly obvious that you give a shit about what you're making.  He was hired to make an mmo, that's all he's doing.  If he really cared about making a great ES MMO, for the fans of ES, it would be Morrowind through Skyrim online and not...dum dum dum, DAoC2.

Let's see.  He was a developer for DAoC, and he helped develop expansions that effectively "wowified" DAoC, and now he's making an ES mmo that's just like the "wowified" DAoC he helped make. 

He's the equivelant of a kid that started drawing with pencils, from a how to draw cartoon books, and 30 years later he's still drawing stuff that looks like what you find in those same how to draw books, in pencils. 

The very first sign that someone lacks creativity, is that they never evolved beyond what they know, and just keep doing the same thing over and over.  That is exactly what Firor is doing.